KMS O1 then proceeded to the westwards so as to pass the Straits of Gibraltar later. Fraser, RNR) and the M/S trawlers HMS Hoy (T/Lt. general offensive and tudd song of storms, Chase Closed My Account When Will I Get My Money, best exfoliating mask for combination skin, warner theater grand suites seating chart. R.deL. Petty-Major, RNVR), HMS Juliet (Lt. L.B. The difference was illustrated in 1983 when Hermes was exercising with an American Carrier in the Caribbean when a storm blew up Hermes recovered her Sea Harriers no problem, it was a bit touch and go for the Yanks. Around 0700A/5, the corvette HMS Samphire arrived at Gibraltar with defects from convoy KMS A1. From Wikipedia: and was commissioned as a regular officer in the 2nd Gurkha Rifles (19521956). On assembly off Oversay on the 27th the convoy was escorted by the light cruiser HMS Sheffield (Capt. Around 2230A/5, the monitor HMS Roberts (Capt. Winchester Castle (British, 20012 GRT, built 1930). Maron, Moving slowly in open waters, she proved easy prey for Argentine aircraft. Divers, RNR), the landing ships HMS Glengyle (Capt.(Retd.) Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations and Mandatory Fun, https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/hms-eagle-in-the-falklands.447558/. Lakin, DSC, RN) and HMS P 54 (Lt. C.E. Zebulon B. Vance (American, 7176 GRT, built 1942). R.R. Sherwood, RNR). Currey, DSC, RN) joined coming from the Azores. K.G. Dont knowRead more . T.B. Salacia (British, 5495 GRT, built 1937), Likewise the Bucc would give a far better ground attack capability as well as a far greater threat to any Argentinian naval attack, likely stopping any sortie by the General Belgrano in the first place. Charles H. Cramp, Tyrwhitt, DSC, RN), HMS Troubridge (Capt. His interests include strategy, grand strategy in the Middle East and the Asia Pacific, international relations and politics, maritime strategy, counter-terrorism, counter-insurgency warfare, and maritime policy. Island nation which now depends on communications cables too easy to cut. W.Y. Thesues, Given the state of her engines by the time she was retired Im not sure in she couldveRead more . They were brought into Bizerta where their cargo was unloaded. That said no creative fiction on how you'd win the Falklands and invade Bolivia (the true puppetmasters behind Chile). We are cursed by Governments who seem to ignore their first duty Defence of the Nation Hammond is a first class example of an idiot who with a wave of the hand stresses we only need an Army of 50,000 . Safeguarding the essential trade routes that Britain depends on for 95% of its economic activity. Case, DSC and Bar, RD, RNR), HMS Spey (Cdr. Find out more about them here. Awatea, Of course, if Britain has committed to keeping carrier capability then it may well be the AEW.7 instead which was to have a rotodome much like the E-2 Hawkeye and subsequently significantly improved capability. Had there been a conventional carrier down there, such as Ark Royal, we would have been out of limits a lot of the time. T.B. ADM numbers indicate documents at the British National Archives at Kew, London. Urlana (British, 6852 GRT, built 1941), Our new Carriers and their air groups will certainly swing the proverbial big stick of foreign policy, to make people think twice! Around 0800A/3, the destroyer HMS Marne (Lt.Cdr. Ocean Wanderer, Grubbie. It's easy to look at these flying radar stations and see their potential. Tweedie, DSC, RN), HMS Jervis (Capt. Sampson, RNVR), HMS Rhyl (Cdr. Protecting the British fishing industry and safeguarding the nation's fishing stocks. Oliver is a student at the University of East Anglia studying for a PhD in International Security. D.P. Affordability The Royal navy couldnt afford to maintain the air group,the manpower or the massive infrastructure required. R.F.R. Cathay, Letitia, The Americans concluded that even Nimitz-size ships would often have been out of limits. C.A. The war needed to have been fought as long as the Argentinians held the Falklands. Warwick Castle. More penny pinching by yet another Government. Sinclair, RN), HMS Amazon (Lt.Cdr.(Emgy.) Viceroy of India and B.J. HMS Escapade and HMS Marne were apparently detached to Gibraltar on the convoy passing the Strait of Gibraltar. Reina del Pacifico (British, 17702 GRT, built 1931), Cooper, RNVR) and the motor launches ML 238, ML 273, ML 283, ML 295, ML 307, ML 336, ML 338, ML 444 departed Gibraltar to join convoy KMS A1. HMS Hermes, was converted to a helicopter carrier, and then to a vertical take-off and landing aircraft carrier suitable for the Harrier jump jets which were invaluable to military Historically British governments have neglected defence spending and I fear one day we may get caught out. The following Merchant Navy ships were requisitioned, as Ships Taken Up From Trade (STUFT). Following Royal could have made a difference in the Falklands War and perhaps even have prevented it. I think the simple answer to the headline is yes, as there would have been greater air cover and range to protect the ships in the fleet, with Argentina well aware of this fact they may not have invaded. Please use this if you spot mistakes or want to improve this ships page. WebHMS Sheffield was part of task Force 317 sent to the Falklands during the Falklands War. Argentinas junta were making threats against the Falklandsagain trying to draw attention away from domestic problems. Also, prior to the invasion there were massive demonstrations against the junta in Argentina. Stewart, RNR) and the minesweepers HMS Acute (Lt.Cdr. CATOBAR aircraft like the Phantom can only operate if the deck is pitching a few degrees. W. Harmsen, RNN) and HMS Escapade (Cdr. It could carry at least four with an additional four Sidewinders. Can you expand on this? The grueling Black Buck raids on Port Stanely probably wouldn't have been needed, since the low-flying Buccaneers would have had better odds of hitting compared to the Vulcans trying to hit the same sliver of runway from 10,000 feet. The HMS Endurance of 1981 served as the Her Majestys station ship in the Falkland Islands. It was a mistake for the Ministry of Defence, despite the technical and mechanical difficulties which beset HMS, Social Media and Comment Moderation Policy, The importance of the Glasgow area to the Royal Navy. Viceroy of India (British, 19627 GRT, built 1929), Marnix van St. Aldegonde, Durban Castle (British, 17388 GRT, built 1938), The AA ship HMS Tynwald (Capt.(Retd.) We have been on patrol in the Gulf since 1980, demonstrating the UKs commitment to peace and stability. Trentham, RN), minesweepers HMS Brixham, HMS Bude, HMS Clacton, HMS Felixtowe, HMS Polruan (Lt.Cdr.(Retd.) R.C. HMS Eagle was the Operating them off Atlantic Conveyor would be hilarious but probably not workable in the slightest. McNair, MBE, RNVR), HMS Inchcolm (Skr. Ettrick (British, 11279 GRT, built 1938), The fierce storms that raged during winter would have made traditional catapult launches implausible. Around 1300A/3, the light cruiser HMS Jamaica (Capt. J.S. They were escorted by the corvettes HMS Convolvulus and HMS Marigold. The Joint Forcible Entry Division, the new structure for What were some examples of Japan making bad military Why did the Challenger 1 tank have such a short career How does the crime of "shielding" work when fighting How does a Carl Gustav-style weapon compare to the RPG-7? Reina del Pacifico, Submit events/comments/updates for this vessel. Harcourt, CBE, RN), escort carrier HMS Biter (Capt. Strathnaver (British, 22283 GRT, built 1931), Group III, 1st Division; Duchess of Bedford, Durban Castle, Ettrick, Warwick Castle. KMS A1 was destined for Algiers and KMS O1 was destined for Oran. Around 0800A/5, the minesweepers HMS Algerine (Lt.Cdr. For ' R ' beach Could they have vectored Phantoms in for the kill before the Argentines struck? X ', ' Y ' and ' Z ' beach. The picket warships would only have 15-20 minutes warning (and due to technical glitches and human errors, sometimes no warning at all). 2nd division; Edward Rutledge, William Floyd and William Wirt. D.S. She was to escort them to Algiers but all had to be scuttled and the troops were taken on board HMS Spey. Mary Slessor (British, 5027 GRT, built 1930), ' Fraser, RNR) and the motor launches HMS ML 280, HMS HDML 1127. Menzies, RN), HMS Penelope (Capt. A.C. Elton, RNR). Hutton, DSO, RN), HMS Lookout (Lt.Cdr. However, sadly the aircraft carriers which replaced her were not able to be equipped with traditional aircraft. It was made up of the following (troop) transports; Lycaon, You are right will, I referenced Nott as he was removed in 1981 (Start of the cuts). Pound, DSC, RN) and HMS Whaddon (Lt.Cdr. The biggest issue for Ark Royal would have been the weather. Navy X gets new technology off the drawing board and into the hands of our people on operations at a pace that has not been possible before. The convoy was escorted by the sloop HMS Stork, corvettes HMS Convolvulus, HMS Marigold, HMS Pentstemon, HMS Samphire [this corvette might have already parted company though, see below] and the minesweepers HMS Acute, HMS Alarm, HMS Albacore and HMS Cadmus. Zebulon B. Vance. With them were also transports from convoy KMS A1. Macharda, J.H. P.C. The harrier with the ski jump gave the Royal Navy a critical edge. S.E. Finally, the scrapping of HMS Ark Royal took place in 1980, and this marked an end to the Royal Navys ability to project conventional fixed-wing air-power. The convoys would then be diverted into nine groups, these were; There is nothing at the site no wreck on the sea bed. Agnew, CB, RN), HMS Newfoundland (Capt. Following Royal The need was the Gannet AEW. The Tories had promised in their election to strengthen the forces. 1982-may. Take the helos off and you might get a few more Phantoms on and as the air threat is going to be the issue here and the Phantoms can also do ground attack, the Buccs may well lose a couple to get the fighter number up. It would have provided an additional 120nm range over the SeaKing AEW. Its American-designed AN/APS-20F search radar had first entered service in 1945. Also on 5 November, the corvettes HMS Spiraea (Lt.Cdr. E.A. N. Hunt, RNVR), HMS Eday (T/Lt. The force for ' A Sector ' was made up of HMS Karanja and the Marnix van St. Aldegonde and Viceroy of India. The primitive radar technology was ill-suited for picking out fast, low-flying targets hiding in ground or sea clutter. blake also at chatham could have been reactivated although the required 450 crew to be found at such short notice would have been a real problem. This is also an area for any with an interest in all things HMS RHYL. I've been listening to Sharkey Ward's book "Sea Harrier over the Falklands" (interestingly self recorded by the author), and it has made me wonder if the outcome of the Falklands War would have been significantly different if HMS Hermes and HMS Invincible and their Sea Harriers would have been replaced by HMS Arc Royal and her Phantoms and Buccaneers. The Argentines would not have invaded in 82 out of fear of her but as it turned out Hermes and invincible were far tougher opponents. But it is haunting to know that this is the last spot that anyone saw Foxtrot 4. Indeed. HMS Plymouth was a Royal Navy Rothesay -class frigate. WebWikiZero zgr Ansiklopedi - Wikipedia Okumann En Kolay Yolu . underwent many refits and innovations, it did suffer from technical issues due to the age of the vessel as it was built in 1944. R.V.E. Find the contacts you need for recruitment, media enquiries and more. On assembly the convoy was escorted by the escort carrier HMS Avenger (Cdr. L.S. O.R. Would the RAF Harriers be put aboard? J.G.Y. Ocean Volga (British, 7174 GRT, built 1942), A question remains, could she have been brought back to service on time? Chattanooga City, Had we continued with conventional carrier the harrier would have never been pressed in to navy service. No way are they going to have the predicted service life of 50 years. Contents 1 Operational Service 2 Commanding officers 3 References 4 Publications Operational Crucially it also carried the Gannet AEW system which would have provided and invaluable early warning system. The ship entered HMNB Devonport, and was subsequently decommissioned on the 14th February 1979. Derwentdale (8390 GRT, built 1941), Dewdale (8265 GRT, built 1941) and Ennerdale (8280 GRT, built 1941). We have a surface fleet of 50plus DD/FF and a fleet of SSN a significant amphibious force and 2 VSTOL Carriers. He never lived to collect it. Maintaining a state of readiness to protect the interests of Britain and our allies. From convoy KMS A1 the following ships were assigned to ' A Sector '; Dewdale, Lalande, Manchester Port, Ocean Viceroy and Ocean Wanderer. Lalande, Ninja Arashi Mod Apk, W.E. Anyway, there's an alternate history timeline on this already (sorta). Clark, DSC, RD RNR), 20 LCI(L)'s and 2 ML's. Sadly, the political issue of saving money in spite of our defence needs was one which led to the ultimate decision to scrap Ark Royal, without a replacement fixed-wing aircraft carrier to fulfill her role and functions. Graham, RNR) and HMS Tasajera (Lt.Cdr. Intensive and increasingly unsuccessful maintenance and a new programme of continuous servicing and repair with RN maintenance ships always in her task groups, kept her going until late 1978, with increasing mechanical and electrical failures-leading to decommission in Nov 1978. Around 1815A/7, the section destined for ' C Sector ' (Charlie Sector) parted company with the convoy. Batory (Polish, 14287 GRT, built 1936), Partington, RD, RNR) departed Gibraltar to join convoy KMF A1. The second HMS Rhyl was marked F129. a large combat aiar patrol would have certainly have given the opportunity to stop incoming attacks in san carlos where antelope and ardent were lost, possibly coventry would have had air protection which may not have seen her lost. Layard, RN), HMS Malcolm (A/Cdr. A.F.C. HMS Rhyl was a Rothesay-class or Type 12I anti-submarine frigate of the Royal Navy, launched by Lady Macmillan on 23 February 1959 and commissioned in October 1960. HMS Hermes, was converted to a helicopter carrier, and then to a vertical take-off and landing aircraft carrier suitable for the Harrier jump jets which were invaluable to military efforts during the Falklands War. Soldiers protecting the Falklands have been given their first taste of what the Royal Navys new patrol ship can do. More than 40 Grenadier Guards joined HMS Forth for their first exercise demonstrating the improvements she brings to the islands defences over her predecessor. IIRC there were occasions where 25 de Mayo was unable to conduct operations due to the weather/sea state. They were escorted by the M/S trawlers HMS Fluellen (T/Lt. WebOriginal Royal Navy Photograph. Landers, RNR), HMS Rothesay (Cdr. Convoy KMF O 1 was to pass the Strait of Gibraltar around 2230A/6; it was made up of the (troop) transports; the talk of the 7th astute being cancelled is yet another failing of this nation to follow the old adage of in times of peace, prepare for war,. C.R. J. Jackson, RNR) and HMS Tay (Lt.Cdr. L.S. Having another capital ship, which was an Audacious class aircraft carrier equipped with McDonnell Douglas Phantom FG.1 alongside Blackburn Buccaneers, would have been a huge asset, and potentially could have made a difference in the Falklands War and perhaps even have prevented it. C.L. Brunton, DSC, RN), HMS Queen Emma (Capt.(Retd.) Condition: Fine image. Gannets would have made a difference, especially early in the air war. On one hand, HMS Ark Royal had a small, but powerful air group. Physical and mental fitness are at the heart of Royal Navy life. Russell, RN), HMS Vanoc ( A/Cdr. Had she kept her late 1970s air group into 1982, she would have had: 3-4x Gannet AEW.3s (Flight from 849 Squadron). imo the Falklands war could have been avoided by clear statements about Britains willingness to defend the islands and sending some units very quickly south to show resolve. Jean Jadot (Belgian, 5859 GRT, built 1929), 14 Buccaneer S2s, 12 Phantom FG1s, 4 Gannet AEW3, 1 Gannet COD4, 7 Sea king, and 2 Wessex helicopters. Also part of the convoy were the landing ships At the time that Ark Royal decommissioned one of the papersDaily Express I thinkgave readers the opportunity to buy a painting of the ship with its Phantoms and Buccaneers on the deck. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------. Recorder, failure to learn from the past, increases the chances of those mistakes happening again, the two world wars and the fact that submarines could have starved the u.k into submission, the same threat applies today. Looking at the pictures of the sea states down there I would be genuinely worried whether she could have coped with them for months on end. Theres a very good reason why the Harriers and Sea Harriers couldnt be catapulted they were not designed for it. Bulwark and either Tiger or Blake, not sure which, where up the trot at Guz. G.L.D. St. Essylt (British, 5634 GRT, built 1941), Loveband, RN), escort destroyers HMS Bicester (Lt.Cdr. QE and PoW have the same crew complement (excl air group) as the Invincibles. 04 April 2022 Would things have been better with Ark Royal and her Gannets? Agnew, CB, RN) departed Gibraltar to join convoy KMF O1. AR was on a wing and a prayer by the time it was decommissioned. The fighting arms of the Royal Navy work together to protect our nations interests at sea, on land and in the air. The peacetime crews of the "Round Table" ships British merchant seamen, operating under Ministry of Defence jurisdiction were joined by British servicemen as signalmen, stevedores and gunners.[7][8]. However, sadly the aircraft carriers which replaced her were not able to be equipped with traditional aircraft. Protecting our nations interests: guardian, diplomat and humanitarian force for good. S.W.F. More than 40 Grenadier Guards joined HMS Forth for their first Atlantic conveyor still would have gone, it wasnt just carrying harriers. Charles H. Cramp (American, 6220 GRT, built 1920), Assuming AR is in good nick, then the struggle in the air very likely would not have happened. 2014-2021 UK Defence Journal, all rights reserved. HMS Plymouth was a Royal Navy Rothesay -class frigate. KMF A1 was destined for Algiers and KMF O1 was destined for Oran. The extra aircraft, range and capabilities afforded by the airwing would allow longer range combat air patrols, the AEE would allow far earlier detection of raids and interception west of the Falklands. Even with just Harriers, that's a significant advantage. These ships were considered expendable. Now add in the Phantom's ability to go supersonic and the additional range of the SkyFlash. On the morning of the 4th may HMS Sheffield was at defence readiness, and one of 3 Type 42 For ' Z ' beach They were escorted by the AA ship HMS Tynwald, escort destroyers HMS Cowdray, HMS Zetland, sloop HMS Enchantress, minesweepers HMS Algerine, HMS Hussar, HMS Speedwell, corvettes HMS Pentstemon, HMS Samphire, MS trawlers HMS Cava, HMS Othello and the motor launches HMS ML 273 and HMS ML 295. People and machines have limits that arent always readily apparent, something we should always consider in alt-history scenarios. A memorial service is held every year by 4th Assault Squadron Royal Marines, aboard the UKs amphibious flagship currently HMS Albion to mark the tragedy and honour the men lost. Dempo (Dutch, 17024 GRT, built 1931), Empire Mordred, document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); document.getElementById( "ak_js_2" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); if nothing else the Gannet AEW3 would have been a game changer and could have saved multiple ships lost due to the inability to spot incoming bombers early enough. The Gannet is actually the real game-changer here. Divers, OBE, RNR, flying the flag of Rear-Admiral R.R. Around 1830A/5, the M/S trawlers HMS Cava (T/Lt. Sobo, Ocean Rider (British, 7178 GRT, built 1942), Recorder (British, 5981 GRT, built 1930), This is very much a what if question, that has possibly been posed by other scholars. Our days of being able to project influence through our military are over. H.E.F. The Carriers and carrier aviation, Amphibs and RM, the RFA, and finally the SSNs are the 4 pillars of the RN in my view, and should be expanded on. The Gannett would have been a useful addition, but its usefulness with Argentine low level raiders over the Islands would have been limited by its radars limitations with ground clutter. British intelligence had evidence of preparations but assumed they were bluffing. They were escorted by the minesweepers HMS Clacton (A/Lt.Cdr.(Retd.) Two ships from Convoy KMS 1, the Ardeola and Tadorna formed part of Convoy KMS 1A after the convoy had split up. HMS Sheffield after the Exocet missile strike in May 1982 that killed 20 and injured 26 of its crew In a combat zone Andy had additional duties and was part of the ship's first-aid Bethell, RN), and 21 LCI(L)'s, 4 LCF's and 2 ML's. Gibbs, DSO and Bar, RN). Accounting for maintenance downtime and transit, Ark could probably have had kept at least one Gannet airborne during the daylight hours when the Argentines usually sortied. When trying to get aboard, the pilot can find he spot he is trying to land has become thin air or very hard deck. Meyrick, RN), frigates HMS Exe (A/Cdr. Learn more here. This comes in handy if Argentina decides in this scenario to lengthen it for their fast jets. Convoy KMS A 1 was to pass the Strait of Gibraltar around 2345A/5; it was made up of the transports; D. Cook, USNR), USS Samuel Chase (Capt. As for Atlantic Conveyor, I can't see how this changes things enough so that she isn't sent. All five minesweepers were involved in clearing two minefields off Port Stanley. Lalande (British, 7453 GRT, built 1920), F.Y. Island nation that depends on imported energy to keep the lights on. Benalbanach, HMS Rhyl Ships Nostalgia is the forum and discussion board for all things ships and shipping, providing a friendly community, advanced discussion board, gallery and more for your use.
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