Svetliy brought a case with samples of various materials that had been melted using a laser or as a molten mass. Thats why I personally and also the military specialists [had to go there]who by this time had very successfully deployed a research centre at the village of Ovruch that allowed a large contingent of military specialists to consciously perform decontamination tasks, measurement tasks, all the tasks that they had been assigned. I heard often that specialists, Kramerov Aleksander Yakovlevich in particular, while discussing these problems with Anatoly Petrovich Aleksandrov, made proposals to the [reactor] designer to change the accident protection system (APS), to improve the APS of this device, and they were not rejected. However, it was already clear on the 26th that the reactor was destroyed. After that, the glowing stopped and the 9th of May was celebrated on the 10th of May in a calm and normal atmosphere. Of course there was a concern that if temperatures in the core were significantly higher than our estimates, say 1600-1700C, the lead would just evaporate and be carried out of the reactor, causing additional contamination of the surrounding areas and rendering this measure ineffective. So the necessary measures were taken to remove that water from there. [28] During his stay, journalist Ales Adamovich interviewed Legasov and he expressed concerns that a similar nuclear accident could still occur. Because of that our conversation was rather fragmented with long silences in between. While some of the dissatisfied masses sign petitions to re-shoot the latest season of Game of Thrones, others are enthusiastically responding to the new mini-series Chornobyl . Scribbling and formalism have reached such a scale that it is already difficult for science to bear this cross. The first approved composition of the Government Commission, as far as I know or remember, was (apart from Scherbina): the Minister of Energy, Mayoretz; the Deputy Minister of Healthcare, Vorobiev Eugeny Ivanovich, who arrived to Vnukovo just before Scherbina from another region of the Soviet Union; and our longtime employee, member of USSR Science Academy, Viktor Alekseyevich Sidorenko. On 27 April 1988,[32] the day after the second anniversary of the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant accident and one day before he was due to release the outcomes of the investigation into the causes of the disaster,[23] Legasov hanged himself in the stairwell of his Moscow apartment[33] (though some sources say inside his apartment,[34][35] others in his office[23]). They themselves? And I remember that my Finnish overcoat, which my wife chose for me after much thought, and my English suit, Legasov: Simply hung up on trees. And this is necessary and essential. According to that register, all the materials that had been tested would be handed over to the Army to use in decontamination tasks. Adamovich: How much of it was there in total? Secondly, it would ensure that the heat transfers to the metal structures and then they would transfer the heat to the air faster. And it turned out that it was determined solely by the lead that comes from automobile exhaust pipes from leaded gasoline. Measures were taken to prevent the radionuclides from getting into the groundwater. So I started preparing a note in which I described all that was known by that time: how the events had developed, how the destruction of reactor number 4 had happened, what work had already been done, and what work was yet to be performed. The second group of specialists, who was working under the instruction of Lev Dmitrievich Ryabev, consisted of radiation institute staff of Ministry of Medium Machinebuilding, was measuring the activity only in some hydro physical points around the station. Then on the 2nd of May, they took part in the meeting carried out in the Chernobyl regional party committee together with comrade Scherbicky (who was here for the first time). I am very concerned about this problem. The philosophy itself contradicted what we had at hand. For if it had appeared, it would have appeared in the Chernobyl days. Moreover, this is being done on different devices at different times. Legasov: In total in the reactor? And this workshop began to regularly decontaminate the most valuable equipment and send it to various parts of the Soviet Union for practical utilization. This is the problem. For example, at the Kola NPP when the main pipeline, the most important pipeline, was welded in such a way where the welders, instead of doing it normally, just put an electrode inside and lightly welded it from above. He is now mainly remembered for his work in containment of the Chernobyl disaster and presenting the investigation findings to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) in Vienna. So we had to send a considerable number of helicopters to take the measurements and investigate. That the accident did not pose any threat to the people in Western Europe and other countries. Then we assumed that even if all the lead evaporates, we took the 30-kilometre zone and derived that everything [contamination in this zone] would turn out to be less than the permissible concentrations. After our high-ranked guests had arrived, they deliberately started their visit from the places where evacuees had been placed. Something else will happen. He was satisfied with this conversation. They, of course, spent most of their time on-site. And the quality of produced Zirconium becomes better, as well as of the pipes made out of it, or else the operating states become better, and everyone calms down until the next thing happens. Talk about the various organizations that are involved both on the site and in their offices; about the medical radiology centre that has been created there. Everyone was tense and anxious to get there quickly, to understand what had happened and to discover the scale of the disaster that we had to face. Moreover, before launching these blocks, an entire complex of measures, developed by experts to further increase the safety of such type of stations, was implemented and tested; partially on the 1st block and fully on the 2nd block. We went in and bought ourselves some very nice shirts. And the Government Commission itself remained in Pripyat. Because it has three elements: a maximally reliable device, a maximally reliable staff, and putting all this underground with maximum reliability, in a rock, under a containment. Adamovich: [weakly and hardly understandable] But what did Gorbachev ask youtell you. I repeat that and I personally was a witness to that. Another thing. Part of fuel can get into the barboteurs, be it lower or upper one and we did not know at that time whether there was water or not. All this had a reassuring effect. For this temperature range, lead would be the most suitable element which would additionally act as a shield against radiation. He is no better or worse than any manager of this rank, and he followed the accepted rules of the game, moving up the career and scientific ladder he took on too much, especially in recent years. This was the main cause. I was particularly horrified by a phosphorous processing plant in the Chemkent region. But I get only 180 and for me, a bonus of 100 roubles is important. The operators had tried to cool it down, but unfortunately, two people had already been killed. This phosphorous plant was something frightful, both from the perspective of the quality of technologic and the saturation with diagnostic devices. Legasov: Of course, later they were all destroyed. What is the fault of Anatoly Pavlovich Alexandrov? And if we took the accumulated statistics, then the statistics on the operation of RBMK reactors were minimal compared to the VVER. From that day on, the generation of radionuclides (of any considerable amount) from the crater reduced. This cloud would act as a kind of spoiler against the wind, trapping aerosol particles that would otherwise have been carried far away on the wind. Now, what else did I want to say about these measures? It was not taken into account that after the nuclear facilities move from limited industrial environment to wide usage in civil nuclear energy, the conditions will change drastically. During the first stages, this was the most effective way where by using ordinary vehicles but with proper crew protection, it became possible to collect and dispose of the most contaminated debris, the most dangerous contaminations. But the article stated very precisely that: firstly, the Soviet Union has developed the physical fundamentals of nuclear energy on the same level as the rest of the world, but the technology gap to implementing those physical fundamentals is huge, and the French should not help the Russians in overcoming this gap. I am a radiochemist, that is, in the designing of reactors, for example, I am involved only from a position of being present at the board meetings to listen to the discussions, debates, etc. Some in the Ministry of Medium Machine Building (Sredmash) opposed his appointment, fearing Legasov would be difficult to control, since the nuclear establishment wanted to divert blame to others if possible. Why caesium? [dictates] Nuclear: Armenian, Leningrad, and Kozloduy, Bulgariathese nuclear power stations that dont have containments. However, there were such giants, behemoths, experienced people that I thought they would not allow for something unpleasant. He was appointed by the Soviet Government to investigate the Chernobyl disaster less than 24 hours after it occurred. At first, he opposed it greatly, he foughtand I can prove this documentarilybut then he gave up. At this point, I want to say that, particularly in the initial period, considering the tragedy of the situation, considering such despair, I would say, considering the lack of technical means, lack of experience in handling such a large scale catastrophe, confusion and uncertainty could have easily arisen in decision making. And so he sought our help all the time on what to do. These were small advantages, of course, but nevertheless. It was led by comrade Petrov who had arrived here earlier. But the refueling itself took only 18-19 days, while for us it takes around a month and a half, and upto two months at times. Legasov: Yes. Legasov: The director of ChNPP was in shock, from beginning to end. They were required to test the materials and create a report, and only after that they could be given to the Army to use on a large scale. They started flyovers above reactor number 4 to assess the situation. That is why the words of Nikolai Ivanovich Ryzhkov should be understood in a much wider context. [7] He opposed a plan to extend the underground cooling system outside the reactor 4 building, as well as other projects he considered to be redundant. The speed of introducing safety systems was, as it seemed, insufficient. The station was under the supervision of our neighboring Ministry of Energy. You would look at the drawings and see an open corridor. Rather, it is a concrete statement. This is what led them, and directed their actions. Legasov continued his attempts to introduce reforms in academic chemistry by establishing an interdepartmental council to try to overcome stagnation in the field. What kind of conversation did you have with him? But the Institute is huge. I have already spoken about that. The first decontamination efforts began even while the conglomeration processes inside reactor number 4 were ongoing. And since Gosplan strictly specified the funding for nuclear energy, this would mean 20-30 per cent fewer nuclear power plants would be built in a given time. Another mistake was that with such technology, it is dangerous to not go the way the world is going. So the conversation was in the form of Do you know? Yes or No. What is going on there? We drove up to the building of the Pripyat City Committee of the Party, placed ourselves in a hotel nearby, where we stayed for about ten days in Pripyat itself, but the headquarters. So this is what it is. This situation continues today. I said that the next disaster will happen in South Kazakhstan, with phosphorus, when everything that lives within a 300-kilometre radius will die. That was the main goal. A group of scientists from Novosibirsk telegraphed me that it was necessary to use more tuff and elite. Adamovich: And the people had already been evacuated. But there was no external radiation exposure or any other effect, so to say, on those people that were evacuated. He wasn't threatened or bullied by the KGB, he wasn't thrown out of his office or anythin. And what if there isnt [above 25 rem] tomorrow? Anyway Also, there was an episode that I will talk about later. Either graphite or metal structures were heating up. That is why the calculations had to be very precise accounting for all the measures that were taken. 56 in Moscow and graduated with a gold medal. Adamovich: Whats his name and patronymic? Then an initial assumption was made that the source of such high activity was the roof of the 3rd block on which was a lot of scattered fuel. "[5] At one point, Antoshkin scolded Legasov for taking too many personal risks when he was key to the operation. There they would burst and cover a significant area; the solution would then polymerise and solidify. They are trying to increase the reliability of the reactor so that there would not be an accident. It was absolutely clear to us that no explosion was possible, only evaporation that would carry out radioactive particles - thats all. I witnessed all this, but it was hard for me to intervene in the process purely professionally while general declarations on this subject were received with hostility. 2400 tons of lead was dropped. And ammonium nitrate is an explosive in its pure form. Later, the maximum dose was reduced. This work had only now begun. And the tracking and monitoring for each one of them are very high-class. Slowly, once the most powerful in the country, they began to lose the standard of modern equipment. And for the last 20 years, he spoke wherever he could, at the Politburo, etc. But coming back to Pripyat As I said, on the 26th of April, at 11 pm, it was decided that the people will be evacuated the next day. He, knowing this, is not in a hurry to create a strong and appropriate alternate organization. People had started sensing that. I was a member of the Science and Technology Council of the Ministry of Medium Machine Building of the USSR, but I was not a member of the reactor unit of this council. Because the philosophy of safety does not depend on what you are dealing with, be it a nuclear reactor, a biological facility where viruses propagate, a chemical plant or something else. It would have been very expensive. If there is a danger of a person receiving a dose of 25 rem immediately or within a certain amount of time, then the local authorities have the right tohave the right to but are not required tocarry out an evacuation. First and foremost I want to say that selecting Boris Eudokimovich Scherbina as the head of the Government Commission was a very good choice . Altogether, these were extremely important questions. The operator had detected the first crack [defect in metal] despite the fact that it could not be seen with the naked eye. We broke off pieces of facing from one of the buildings and took them from Pripyat to Chernobyl. And the requirements they created were not ideal, not the ones that had to be created to make nuclear energy safer, but rather they were coming from the current situation that we had here, and from some Western experiences. Valery Legasov. This was sort of the main task in that period. We had to avoid reaching a temperature of 2,500 degrees. Sensors for radiation fields, sensors that could measure the composition of gas at various locations in the Chernobyl NPP. Did Valery Legasov kill himself because of his problems with the Soviet government, as shown in HBO's Chernobyl? How can I listen to Valery Legasov tapes? Our brainstorming session was conducted in constant consultation with Moscow, with whom one of us was constantly on the phone - for example Anatoly Petrovich Alexandrov. The shot was on station territory but it was in a room that was heavily contaminated, making it impossible to load it into the helicopters. But when it comes to the design of a [particular] aircraft, it must have a single owner. [12]:261 He received the degree of Candidate in 1967 and his doctorate in chemistry in 1972. Of course, I could not imagine at that time the level of danger, the scale of danger that was inherent in those old devices. Where did this come from? The dams were designed and built immediately but this was also accompanied by research work. Dust transfer because of a dry summer was also enlarging the contaminated areas. He had obtained the necessary permission for it. And they estimated the escaped fuel by the activity within their measured points. These sensors were placed in various spots. Second, at the high temperatures that we had measured at some points, the process would get reversed. The provisional title of this article is The reasons that led to the Chernobyl accident and its consequences. At the same time, Shasharin, the First Deputy Minister of Energy, under whom the station was at the time, was at a loss. Sitting in his home, Valery Legasov, the deputy director of the Kurchatov Institute of Atomic Energy, records tapes recounting the true account of what happened at the Chernobyl Nuclear power plant in the Ukraine on the day it exploded. This is Tape 1, part 2. These are three different types of reactors. If, however, the researchers received robots that had good all-terrain travel capability in the most difficult conditions, then their electronics would fail because of the high gamma radiation and they also stopped. While in Chernobyl, I spoke with him thrice on the phone. Groundwater was only 32 meters deep under the Chernobyl station. It was about a deal where we would increase the supply of natural gas to France while they would provide us with nuclear technologies: robots for repair works, loading and unloading operations, some diagnostic systems, a range of devices to make the technology of the construction and operation of a reactor more modern. Before the start of the meeting, Nikolai Ivanovich Yermakov, the head of the 16th head office of the Ministry of Medium Machine Building, under whose supervision our entire university was, walked up and said calmly but with some concern, that an unpleasant accident had happened at the Chernobyl Station. And subsequently, from September onwards, all the work on the site of the Chernobyl station and within the contaminated zone was the responsibility of the Government Commission. Perhaps that was a wrong decision, because some of those cars were contaminated, and the dosimetric posts had not yet been organized to control the contamination levels on such vehicles . It has many zirconium channels in which water is heated using the fuel pellets and this water immediately enters the turbine and drives it. [17] In 1981, he became a full member of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR, in the Department of Physical Chemistry and Technology of Inorganic Materials. The local authorities acted according to these rules, either relocating people or letting them stay, switching to imported food, or declaring the area safe enough to live in and to use the land. Considering the latest accident in Brazil, it is even worthwhile to mention the use of radiopharmaceuticals and the forms of their use. I have to start the part where I create my memoir. One of these components is Magnesium oxide - an oxide with relatively good thermal conductivity and, like lead, when it gets into place, it acts as a heat sink and transfers heat to all other metal construction elements. This is how five out of ten projects became a failure. We got into the cars and set off. Thats why more staff is needed to operate our stations, there are many poor devices, many imprecisions in the operating systems that service the station. [23], With the first draft of Legasov's report received by the Central Committee, some were shocked and one minister forwarded it to the KGB with the recommendation that the authors be prosecuted. And so, before the Politburo, before the 5th of May, when Shcherbina had already left and Silayev had arrived, this was the 3rd or 4th of May, I heard the first call from Gorbachev to Silayev and his conversation with him. I think it was out of these considerations; perhaps he had other considerations. But then the commission did a much more thorough assessment and concluded the same thing as I did. This is what I was passionately working on, mainly figuring out the dangers in sources of energy alternative to nuclear energy. This was during Silayevs time when he has already arrived. At this time, the. 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